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There is K (J. Krishnamurty), a man we can not put in any category. There is presence of mind, openness and intensity in him. Most are fascinated with K yet not many explore what he explained over a period of seventy years with great clarity. Can we explore what K is telling us?
To explore ..
To explore means not to tell other people what to do.
To explore means to replace commenting with observation.
To explore means to watch, to listen, to look ..
22 comments:
can you tell me a fact ?
what do you call a fact..
an explanation from the human point of view is a fact ?
It is a fact that we live in a non-sustainable world. This means we consume energy from non-renewable sources. We know it for more than 30 years. It is a fact that no war resolves anything. There might be also many simple facts about our personal life. For some of those facts we do not want do be reminded. There is a reaction. We want to prevent the reaction by ignoring it. We also do not want to consider it because we have no solution in hand. The facts are still there though and we cannot run away from them. Can I watch, observe these facts for what they are? Not running away, not hiding or ignoring it? Now doing this what is happening to us?
it is a fact that war exists..
can i see it, face it, understand that i am war? what do i see.. war is in the actions i take, or better said, in the reactions. does reactions always come from a sense of defending? defending my property, physically, but also psychologically, my property, my values, my self-image, my ideas and beliefs, my conditionings, my habits, my standards, my way of life. to change our behavior, needed for the survival of humanity, i have to give up a lot of those.. what can force me to do so? is there a force that will not cause reactions?
Why is there reaction? It is quick action. Before we watch it, the action is out already. There is no sense of the whole. There is no seeing of all and how to contribute in a sense which is true. Is it the absence of watching of the insight? There are also positive reactions. Something falls down and someone picks it up before there is thought. Can we say there is action which appears not to fit in, action which only serves one thought, action which is incomplete? There is no watching of the action as such. Action is only considered to be necessary not something to be aware of. Can I be aware of action taking place? I am acting and I am the action, there is suddenly oneness or there is a sense of being in touch. This action is different.
K: Now, what is there to understand about a fact? There is nothing, is there? A fact is a fact, it is self-evident. The struggle to understand comes only when the thinker is trying to do something about the fact. The action of the thinker upon the fact is shaped by his memory, by his past experience; therefore, the fact is always shaped by the thinker, and therefore he never understands the fact. But if there is no thinker, but only the fact, then the fact has not to be understood - it is a fact; and when you are face to face with a fact, what happens? When there is no escape, when there is no thinker trying to give the fact a meaning to suit himself or shape it according to his particular pattern, what happens? When you are face to face with a fact, surely then you have understood it, have you not? Therefore, there is freedom from it. And such freedom is a radical freedom, it is not just a superficial reaction, a result of the mind's trying to identify itself with a particular opposite. As long as we are seeking a result there must be the thinker, there must be the process of isolation; and a person who, in his thoughts, is isolated as the thinker, can never find what is true. The so - called religious person who is seeking God is merely establishing himself as a permanent entity apart from his thoughts, and such a person can never find reality.
J.Krishnamurti New York 1st Public Talk 4th June 1950 (http://www.kinfonet.org)
exactly, when i read this quote of the day i thought i could place it here. and you did. good. this sais so much, if not all.
now i am left to watch my mind trying to react on this fact.. i see the acrobatical moves it makes, bringing in all sorts of theories and explanations, but when negating these there is nothing more then a bare fact.
is this emptying the mind ?
What is striking what K is saying is that if you face the fact there is understanding. And once there is understanding there is freedom from it. - If we face a fact and we are open to it, no running away from it, is there not a transformation taking place? Suddenly we see. I am not the same person anymore. – Let’s take an example of daily life. Bags accumulate constantly in the house. Once I look at this fact I automatically take a bag with me when I go shopping. I look at my garbage and I see that most of it is packing material. Next time I select a product the packing material is a factor I consider. It is simply there I do not have to remember it. – Now we ere talking about action and reaction. Can I simply not react but listen what is happening which is facing the very moment? This facing is understanding and frees from reacting. - Listening to one’s thoughts is empting the mind. It is facing thinking which is a fact and frees from it.
yes.. and now we have this understanding, is it mere intellectual ? you give some practical examples, i see it happening too, still these seems to be little changes, fragments, the easy steps we take, but what prevents us from a radical shift. loads of facts tell me i should take much more concrete actions, but somehow i don't know where to begin, or what to give priority, or how to deal with the consequences which will be caused by changing my behaviour.
Ok we see something, we understand something. We can fall back and just forget it or something pulls me back and I face it again and I am not afraid. Is it not that all big things start small? - The fact that there is listening occasionally and independent action is taking place at times, is not a small thing. We are used to project and get lost in action. Can I refuse to get lost in action? Can I be in tune or in balance with .. everything, not letting go what I can perceive?
The question is, can I observe, can I listen whatever I can perceive? The rest is flowing out of it naturally? I do not change my behaviour. But it can happen that my listening and observation does change my behaviour. The action of listening and observation changes and not anything else.
all true.. listening and observation is the changing factor, and what i tell myself later on are just thoughts again, trying to claim the change, judging about it, categorizing and all its other measurements and opinions projecting on the fact that i changed. in fact it wasn't me who changed. my being is the result of the circumstances from the outside and inside, the being changes all the time, each moment a new being, in fact there is no change, only now this moment is here, forever new.
Listening and observing is the change. And then there are memories of it what was observed. Memories are put into context in thought. Thought makes an image of it. The image is suddenly an icon. Can I let go the image and go back to simple being, disconnected from memories? There is always the outside and the inside. Are they both free of being forced into something? Can I simply perceive them from what they are? – If listening and observing are the change, then there might be change all the time in the moment as long as this listening and observing is there. - Facing facts is the cause of change. This is not what is generally accepted. Projecting from the material world we tend to say in order to change we need something in hand. But in the psychological realm we have nothing in hand. The act of facing is all, there is to change.
UO
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