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There is K (J. Krishnamurty), a man we can not put in any category. There is presence of mind, openness and intensity in him. Most are fascinated with K yet not many explore what he explained over a period of seventy years with great clarity. Can we explore what K is telling us?
Engadin1
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Stone1B
To explore ..
To explore means not to tell other people what to do.
To explore means to replace commenting with observation.
To explore means to watch, to listen, to look ..
17 comments:
thankyou very much for building this blog, so nice to have a new possibility to explore K and to share our views and findings together. we have to take some actions (signing in i.e) but i guess the little effort is worthwile to take.
maybe, if possible, the guiding-texts on the blog can be in english ?
looking forward to the unfolding
with love,
kirsten
To explore, to be open and to watch. Are we in this state of openness? If not what is stopping us of beeing in this state to be open?
the state of openness, is this what K called meditation? which can take place all day long.
mostly i am aware that i am not aware. so i am aware of my unawareness.. and seeing this shows a lot about all the things in my mind. i can be open to see i am not open, and learn from that?
Openness -- interesting topic.
Complete openness, without direction? (this seems interesting; not quite sure what it is, but it may be worth exploring)
Openness in a certain area?
Openness to what?
What realm(s)?
Also, K seemed to warn (at times) about trying to understand 'the teachings' rather than life and living, and transformation of life and living, and transformation or mutation of consciousness.
Do we want to undertand K, or do we want to do it?
Is it 'living' that we are interested in, or some kind of transformation, beyond what we know as 'living'? -- is that the central interest?
(We seem to have a lot of interests....)
On the question, What is keeping us from being open or aware?:
This morning one was noticing how the mind turns its attention to thoughts. When its attention is on the thoughts, it does not see the trees, the colors, the sky.
It was very simple.
Still, I wonder: are we here to be visually aware? Aware of shapes or colors? Sounds? Touch?
Why focus on any one of these?
--That's why the question 'What realms?' comes up.
There is a deeply interesting dialogue with K (the dialogue is called 'What is Beauty'; K may not have given it this title; the central and deepest enquiry is into something beyond beauty, and beyond sensitivity)(That dialogue interests me so much that it would probably be a good basis for an exploration in itself -- I love that dialogue, or what it is pointing to. A friend of K's asks him about beauty, and K goes into the subject of beauty, alertness, sensitivity. Then the friend says he wants something much more -- something infinitely greater. K asks him if he is sure this is really what he wants. K then says that the sensitivization (or heightening of awareness) is a prelude or basis for the other. He goes on to say that it means something further: the "shattering" of everything -- his knowledge, respectability, morality, concepts...--the list was even longer -- the ending of everything that was 'him' -- and then he said something like 'reduced to absolute nothingness'; then that other, that infinite sacredness might....)
What is openness? To question demands openness. In order to be open we need to be prepared. Prepared meaning not to be distracted, confined or absorbed. Is it possible not to be distracted or absorbed? Not chasing any thought or excitement? To stay what is. Being open what is. A state of meditation as pointed out above. We see and know it; it is difficult to stay with what is or to be in a state of meditation. But we are in the moment in situations where there is urgency when we are passionate about something, or simply when there is attention. Attention demands, challenges our mind and body. Do we observe this? Are we aware of this? Is it part of what we know? Is it possible to be aware that I am not aware? Or is it rather I am aware that I was not aware at some occasion? – Now when we understand something, does this not catalyze the doing? There is understanding, there is seeing and so we can act without conflict. Understanding does imply that it is not intellectual. When we do something we often are absorbed by it. Absorbed meaning there is no perception apart of that. In the meditative state there is still this awareness of what is there on the side. Openness excludes any realm, any limit. It is in fact scary thinking of it, to be completely open. It is demanding. Scary because it implies we let go things we are attached to. So we simply observe this, not turning our heads. –There are quite a few things which are difficult to talk about. Like ‘beauty’. We can only talk about it when there is this sense of open questioning, exploration.
so now we do perceive this actual moment, the 'what is'. and i am aware of what is going on in my mind. i see the movements of thought. wanting to write something in this wonderful electronic book there are several motivations coming from several sources. there is vanity (let's say something beautiful), there is some kind of a mission-feeling (this is the time to do a good thing), there is a teacher-voice (i want to write something which will open the eyes of the reader), also a student-voice (now i am learning!). there is a feeling of friendship (we are sharing), a feeling of love (how nice to be in relation), a feeling of fear (i want this to continue.. please don't let it end), and a feeling of curiosity (where will all this lead to?)... curiosity seems also having to do with the desire of knowing. the tendency to catch the unknown future into an idea, ideal, imagination, fantasy, daydreaming :)
seeing all this.. what do i write?
it is an expression of me, my being at this moment.
maybe the question can be.. do i make a decision what i will write, or can i let it flow spontaneously?
spontaneous expression -- interesting
Sometimes it seems like an aspect of spontaneity is letting go of 'effects' or goals -- leave the effects and the goals to the unknown.
(the management of effects -- )
There may be a highly intelligent loving and mysterious unknown in the universe that understands this business of what is best -- what the true effects are to be, and how to manage them.
It may have extreme vision, wide and deep.
The human brain may be unable to grasp all the manifold effects and interconnections, no matter how much it thinks, or has been conditioned to think, it can grasp the totality, and manage it. There may be a wholeness that, like the human body spontaneously healing from some wound, has wholistic vision that goes far beyond brain vision.
Being in tune with that flow (being a natural expression of it?) may be part of the meaning of spontaneity?
Perhaps the meaning of openness may also include this....
Openness to that flow....
*******
Exploring this here, freedom also comes in -- there may be freedom -- being free of those other ways of thinking.
Not blocked or caught by brain's limited understandings?
Free of being the 'manager'?
Released from a false role?
Openness to the river's intelligence?
Maybe it can even heal while flowing in peace and joy, and without strain....
(don't know for sure, but it seems like something to consider, and perhaps be aware of, if it is so)
Openness to the river's friendship and love?
When we say we do and I am, is this an affirmation or an observation? Can we be free of affirmations? Wanting implies motivations. Can we be free of any motivation which is not connected to what we are looking into? Do we see the difficulty to be simple? Do we need to empty the mind first? Is this the meditative state we are talking about?
We are spontaneous when the mind is empty. What is meant with manage? The best implies comparison, to measure? To measure with respect to what? What is a vision? Is it a projection? Do we need them? Can they prevent us from looking into what is? Is it not that very little is known about the human brain even so there has been significant progress in visualizing brain activity recently? How important is simplicity? If we are not simple and clear it will not be accessible to others. The watching, the process of observation is not managed, it does not need management. Freedom implies no management but observation? – Interesting relating openness with intelligent. Talking with bright people we see they are very open to a wide spectrum of reflections. It is as if there is a consciousness of all the brain movements. Friendship is there when there is trust in the other person? We are very vulnerable towards this trust any deception is disturbing. – Are we clear what it means to explore?
to explore is observation and sharing our views... learning from it, can it bring about understanding? or is it another affirmation to expect understanding from it? the openness means no expectations, no conclusions, no motivations, no direction.. just looking, watching, watching the movements inside. seeing how the outside is percieved and how it is translated in the inside. the perceiving is also connected with the inside, the view is dictated from my actual state of mind. i cannot force emptyness, openness, spontaneity.. do i see that? is it intelligence to see that i am not open? and to see that therefore i cannot act intelligently?
To explore implies observation. Sharing extends the observation. The observation provides all the information to see, to understand and to learn. At some point the seeing is the doing. Yes and as you say affirmation, expectation, conclusion is incompatible with exploration. It implies direction and excludes openness. Observation and watching with openness implies the watching of the inside. What is happening to it and how it relates to the outside. Yes understanding, seeing, perception
is connected to the inside. Openness cannot be forced. It is related to a state of being ready, a state of meditation. It is difficult to see that we cannot force meditation, openness even so we control so much in the physical world. Not expecting we can observe what is, without fear. Once we are aware what we observe, we see. Intelligence is seeing how limiting it is to expect and to conclude. Intelligence comes out of simplicity and openness?
Can we conclude what we are pointing out here about what it means to explore? Can this be a basis for the following discussions?
can we conclude we shall not conlude...
or when we do, we see it for what is is and from that we will explore further.
can we point at eachothers conlusions without getting upset, becoming defensive, getting lost in arguments..
i think we can, so let's go on :)
see it for what it is..
You are right. How can we conclude after we see the importance of being open? It is more about recalling and being clear. Nothing is closed.
Was thinking of going into what it consciousness and what K is talking about. I remember I never got it very clearly when I listened to him. We also did not touch it much in the last chapter. The last chapter I feel is about complete.
yes, me too didnot know what to say more on the last chapter. thanks for these dialogues wsb, there is some nice plain groundedness around them which i like very much, as if we are taking a silent walk and share what we see, not by talking, but just watching and sharing what we see..
now let's explore the consciousness, it is such an multi-interpretable word.. let's go for a walk on that and see what we'll find.
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